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learningthetruth

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Reply with quote  #1 

I dont see any instances where any women have divorced any men so I am asking. I see in Mark 10:12 it speaks on a woman putting away her husband. What about if the man is verbal and/or physically abusive. That does not fall on the instance of porneia or adultery at all. Or what if the spouse is into the bible but not following the torah correctly? Like having sex with prostitutes or other woman without a covenant, is this a sin? Matthew 12;25 speaks on a house divided that shall fall. So to prevent the fall can one or the other spouse leave under those circumstances stated above? Thanks for any replies

True_Nation

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Reply with quote  #2 
Shalam LTT, If you havent already please read the thread "Divorce, Putting Away, Separation Whats the Difference"  I have included the link
http://truenation.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=3608317

A wife cannot divorce her husband unless he completely refuses to comply with the commandments of the Most High which will eventually terminate the marriage anyway at which point counsel by her elders is consulted.  She is not to make this decision on her own.

1 Corinthians 7:15
But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage (bond of marriage) in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.


1 Corinthians 7:10-11
And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
 11But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and letnot the husband put away his wife. 

(This shows the church manages and hears the causes of the congregants including their relationships.  And the congregants must obey and receive counsel from their elders as Paul is instructing them with marital issues. 

 

However if her husband walks disorderly (drunk, brawler, physical or verbal abuse, drugs, irresponsible and such things that are not punishable by death according to the law, she must consent her elders of the congregation to present cause (this is the importance of belonging to a congregation... a righteous one that is!).  She must depart from her husband and allow him to repent (the same for the husband if the wife walks disorderly) however she must remain unmarried seeing the husband may very well return unto the Lord (repent from his unlawful deeds)

 

This method of separation is not applicable in acts of physical or spiritual fornication which consist of adultery, whormonging, homosexuality, incest, beastiality and such things that are punishable by death.

 

Mathew 19:9

And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

1 Cor 5:11

 11But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat (dwell or fellowship with).

 

1 John 3:15

Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
 
1 Corinthians 6:8-10
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

 10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
When we walk disorderly according to the commandments separation or divorce is eminent seeing the righteous cannot fellowship and agree with he/she that is contrary.  Seek righteous counsel for these matters.  The rest is pretty much covered in the thread I included in this reply.

Also listen to the audio lesson titled "Spirit of Separation" located in the Audio/video section of our website http://www.truenation.org


 


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learningthetruth

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Reply with quote  #3 

I dont know what whoremongering and fornications means. Does whoremonger mean a man that has sex or keeps company with whores? I was taught early on that fornication means having sex without a marriage covenant but now im hearing that a man can have sex with whomever he chooses. Am i correct with this statement?

True_Nation

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Reply with quote  #4 
Whoremonging is an act of fornication which are those that act outside of a covenant of marriage and morality which includes: pimps, prostitutes, those that use or purchase a prostitute (male or female),  promiscuity, lewd behavior, pornography, orgies, threesomes, strippers or exotic dancers and such actions.

Fornication covers a broader scope of actions which include: whoremonging, adultery, homosexuality, beastiality, pedophiles, incest, and spiritual idol worship an rebellion.

If you were taught that a man can have sex with whomever he chooses without a bond of marriage, this is whoremonging seeing there is no commitment which actions make the daughters of Israel into whores/harlots  or in today's terms.... Hoes and loose.

Consult your elders and have them explain such teachings as you have experienced through the scriptures as Truenation does not support such a doctrine.

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IQAHMATH

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Reply with quote  #5 

Its a trip to hear that such a doctrine is being taught. But then again there's always been false teaching and prophets amongst our people. TN gave a good understanding regarding whoremongers and fornicators. I'll just give a couple laws on that.

Lev 19:29 Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a whore; lest the land fall to whoredom, and the land become full of wickedness

We see the power of entertaining such acts, a whole land can become wicked from whoredom, imagine what it'll do to a single household.

Deut 23:17 17] There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.

The Lord created us to be a Holy Nation, we can't be if fornication and soliciting of prostitutes are being promoted or not being taught that it's unlawful. Proper edification must be given to our people!

I've heard also of doctrines promoting or accepting of spousal abuse. This also is unacceptable and not scriptural.

Titus 1:1-7 [1] Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,
[2] To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.
[3] For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
[4] But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
[5] Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
[6] Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
[7] That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Certain elements of ourselves we must change as becoming new creatures in Christ. Don't be confused in thinking that not being a brawler and being gentle means that a brotha must be soft so to speak, a brawler is one who enjoys fighting,controversy, riotous behavior etc.. There's no problem being a defender as Paul said "we're set in defense of the Gospel" but not trouble makers. The Lord said that a man should dwell with his wife according to knowledge not by intimidation, physical abuse or emotions.

1 Pet 3:7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

Shalam




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learningthetruth

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Reply with quote  #6 
Wow. Okay, so what if a man has sex with someone of another nation, he isn't turning the daughters of Israel into a whore. Thanks for the answer, I felt they weren't right.
IQAHMATH

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Reply with quote  #7 
GOOD QUESTION LTT,
MARRYING OUTSIDE OF THE NATION OF ISRAEL WAS ALSO FORBIDDEN. EVEN WITH ANOTHER NATION 1.ITS STILL FORNICATION BECAUSE OF THE NATURE OF THE SEXUAL ENCOUNTERS, AND 2. THE MOST HIGH WARNED US OF MAKING MARRIAGES WITH THE OTHER NATIONS BECAUSE HE KNEW WE'D BE SEDUCED AND FOLLOW AFTER THEIR GODS AND NOT HIM.

PROV 12:26 [26] The righteous is more excellent than his neighbour: but the way of the wicked seduceth them.

DEUT 7:1-6 [1] When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashi-tes, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou;
[2] And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:
[3] Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.
[4] For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly.
[5] But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire.
[6] For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

EZRA 9:7-12 7] Since the days of our fathers have we been in a great trespass unto this day; and for our iniquities have we, our kings, and our priests, been delivered into the hand of the kings of the lands, to the sword, to captivity, and to a spoil, and to confusion of face, as it is this day.
[8] And now for a little space grace hath been shewed from the LORD our God, to leave us a remnant to escape, and to give us a nail in his holy place, that our God may lighten our eyes, and give us a little reviving in our bondage.
[9] For we were bondmen; yet our God hath not forsaken us in our bondage, but hath extended mercy unto us in the sight of the kings of Persia, to give us a reviving, to set up the house of our God, and to repair the desolations thereof, and to give us a wall in Judah and in Jerusalem.
[10] And now, O our God, what shall we say after this? for we have forsaken thy commandments,
[11] Which thou hast commanded by thy servants the prophets, saying, The land, unto which ye go to possess it, is an unclean land with the filthiness of the people of the lands, with their abominations, which have filled it from one end to another with their uncleanness.
[12] Now therefore give not your daughters unto their sons, neither take their daughters unto your sons, nor seek their peace or their wealth for ever: that ye may be strong, and eat the good of the land, and leave it for an inheritance to your children for ever.


NEH 13:23-27 [23] In those days also saw I Jews that had married wives of Ashdod, of Ammon, and of Moab:
[24] And their children spake half in the speech of Ashdod, and could not speak in the Jews' language, but according to the language of each people.
[25] And I contended with them, and cursed them, and smote certain of them, and plucked off their hair, and made them swear by God, saying, Ye shall not give your daughters unto their sons, nor take their daughters unto your sons, or for yourselves.
[26] Did not Solomon king of Israel sin by these things? yet among many nations was there no king like him, who was beloved of his God, and God made him king over all Israel: nevertheless even him did outlandish women cause to sin.
[27] Shall we then hearken unto you to do all this great evil, to transgress against our God in marrying strange wives?

AS YOU SEE ON NUMEROUS OCCASIONS ISRAEL WAS INTRANSGRESSION FOR MARRYING WOMEN OF THE OTHER NATIONS AND THE PROPHETS ALWAYS PRAYED, REBUKED AND REPENTED FOR ISRAEL FOR THEIR ACTIONS. SOLOMON HIMSELF SINNED AGAINST THE LORD DUE TO ALLOWING HIS CONCUBINES (HIS WIVES OF A DIFFERENT NATION) TO SET UP ALTERS TO THEIR GODS, AND IDOL WORSHIP ETC.. WISEST MAN ON EARTH WAS STILL SUBJECT TO BEING SEDUCED BY THE WAYS OF THE WICKED!

THE ONLY TIME ISRAEL WAS ALLOWED TO LAWFULLY TAKE A WOMAN OF ANOTHER NATION AS A WIFE OR CONCUBINE WAS DURING TIMES OF WARFARE AND THEY WERE TAKEN AS SPOILS. SEEING THAT WE'RE NOT AT PHYSICAL WARFARE WITH ANY OF THE OTHER NATIONS THIS CAN'T APPLY TO ANYONE INVOLVED WITH HAVING SEXUAL RELATIONS OR RELATIONSHIPS PERIOD WITH THE OTHER NATIONS.

DEUT 21:10-14 10] When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive,
[11] And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife;
[12] Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails;
[13] And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife.
[14] And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her.

STIPULATIONS WERE INVOLVED IN THESE SCENERIOS. FIRST THE WOMAN HAD TO SHAVE HER HEAD AND CLIP HER NAILS AS AN ACT OF HUMILTY AND SUBMISSION TO THE ISRAELITE MAN AND THE MOST HIGH'S LAWS. SHE THEN HAD TO BE TAUGHT THE LAWS OF ISRAEL TO ABIDE AND LIVE BY. SHE ALSO HAD TO BE A VIRGIN UNDEFILED OR HUMBLED BY ANOTHER MAN ESPECIALLY OF HER OWN NATION. THAT'S WHY THE SCRIPTURES SPEAK OF HER HAVING 30 DAYS TO MOARN AND GRIEVE OF LEAVING HER PARENTS HOME, AND ALSO THE LAW REGARDING IF THE MAN HAS NO DELIGHT IN HER, MEANING IF HE HAS NO DESIRE IN HER ANY LONGER OR FOR WHATEVER REASON SHE ISN'T COOPERATING WITH THE LAW AND DISRUPTING THE HOUSEHOLD HE COULD LET HER GO, BUT NOT SELL HER AS IF SHE WAS A SLAVE. SHE HAD BEEN "HUMBLED" AS A VIRGIN BY THAT MAN. SHE COULD BE LET GO.

SO AGAIN THAT WAS IN TIMES OF WARFARE, AND IF SOMEONE USES THE EXCUSE "WELL WE'RE IN SPIRITUAL WARFARE DOES THAT COUNT?".. NO! DON'T USE THE SPIRIT TO SATISFY THE PHYSICAL.

HOPE THAT HELPS
SHALAM!
 

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learningthetruth

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Reply with quote  #8 
I understand completly. A man must
make a covenant with a woman and only in captivity can he take a wife from another nation. And if he does take a captive wife, he must wait 30 days to have sex, cut off all her hair and nails and she must be a virgin. So a divorced or widowed woman wont be lawful? Also, Bathsheba was married to uriyah the Hittite who was a Canaanites if I'm correct, he wasn't punished or was he?
Ariel

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Reply with quote  #9 

True Nation I noticed in many of your replies such as this one you tell brothers and sisters to discuss certain things with their elders.  Arent you brothers considered elders?  Is there a reason for this? I'm assuming its to eliminate the confusion of different teachings. is that right? 

True_Nation

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Reply with quote  #10 
1 Corinthians 14:40
Let all things be done decently and in order.

1 Timothy 5:17
Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

Romans 15:20
Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation:

 

Ariel you are partially correct in your assumption.  As the scriptures above state the various reasons contributors to this forum are admonished to address their elders for certain purposes.  Yes, the moderators of this forum are elders of our congregation and that of the faith of Christ as well.  With this knowledge it is wise that brothers and sisters consult their elders for various reasons.

1.  That different understandings do not enter into the church creating division.  There are some Elders that are sincere and some that deal deceitfully and bring about false teachings.  If the latter is the case, those elders should be addressed by those that are exposed to such teachings in order to clarify any error or expose the untruth taught within the congregation.  Christ commands that if there be any offense one is to go to his brother and tell him personally his fault and then proceed accordingly.  Mat 18:15

2. It is the elder's responsibility to teach the men and women of their congrgation and brothers and sisters must give them that honor and respect.  It is not unlawful that brothers and sisters learn from a righteous "outside source" but what they lack to discern can effect the church if not pursued wisely. (especially with all of the nonesense on  the internet these days)

3. Brothers and sisters bounce around with the "Spirit of Preference" looking for congregations that support their way of thinking, not to join the church but to use the teachings to their advantage be it truthful or not.  Example: A sister may pose a question such as "Are women allowed to teach?" and will visit other congregation's websites and make phone calls and if a congregation agrees with her view she will use that teacher's advice to justify her point and avoid those that are contrary.  (in Most Cases)

4. Also people have a tendency to go from congregation to congregation seeking unjust counsel and advice having the elders only hear one side of the story and unlawfully giving advice and counsel on matters (an elder should know better not to partake of this act).  Example: a brother that is seeking to divorce his wife may go to various congregations to ask "what if you have a wicked wife?"  and will most likely heed the advice that best suits his desire.  To say "divorce her!" is too premature without having weighed both accounts of the man AND wife.  Some elders give unlawful and unbalanced counsel without having all of the facts to examine the situation righteously.  For this cause we ask that contributors consult their elders out of respect and to avoid confusion and that women consult their husbands as to who and what they are learning so order can be kept in the churches and in the home. 

Hebrews 13:17
Obey them that have the rule over you (Elders), and submit yourselves (obey): for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

The elders are to act as guardians to their congregation seeing the Most High holds us responsible for the congregation's spiritual well being.  So we deal respectfully with other elders for this purpose.  This is similar to the parent that asks someone else's child "Are YOUR parents ok with you visiting?"  Although we are all adults, the token of respect still applies. 




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"Knowledge and wisdom shall be the stability of thy times and strength of salvation; the fear of the Lord is his treasure" Isaiah 33:6
Ariel

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Reply with quote  #11 
I understand completely and it makes sense to handle things that way. Most brothers will try to urge you to join their congregation and belittle most elders thats not a part of their camp. I can see that you brothers try to do your part to respect the brotherhood of Israel. Kudos to the elders of the truenation congregation.
True_Nation

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Reply with quote  #12 
Ariel your words are greatly appreciated.

It is through the spirit and mercy of Christ that we attempt not to get lifted up with the spirit of competition as many brothers do.

1 Corinthians 3:3-4
For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

As Paul addresses here, there were brothers that pledged their loyalty to the men that taught them before that of Christ.  It is great to take pride in one's congregation but the congregation itself is merely a piece of the body of Christ and cannot be exalted.  However there are some that disregard the counsel of Paul and begin to boast of their congregation's numbers of members, works, knowledge etc... drawing people to THEM first and then to Christ second if at all.  This is where the pride and ego begins and as the scripture states, envying, strife, and divisions are created.  "If you are not a part of us, then you are on the wrong path!!!" is what they indirectly promote.  But Christ had to admonish his disciples for this carnal (evil) way of thinking.

Mark 9:38-39
And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name (teaching the word of Christ in TRUTH), and he followeth not us (not a part of their congregation or ministry) and we forbad (forbid or discouraged) him, because he followeth not us.
But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.

As we see it is very easy to fall into that way of thinking but as Christ taught, it is not about US or bringing people to US (per se) but we are laborers called by the Lord to bring others to the LORD and not ourselves.  Although we call our congregation Truenation, there is only ONE true nation and that is ISRAEL who Christ was crucified to unite unto the Most High.  If we learn to be more brotherly, humble and considerate of each others works we may be able to view past ourselves and see the big picture.....Deuteronomy 6:4




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"Knowledge and wisdom shall be the stability of thy times and strength of salvation; the fear of the Lord is his treasure" Isaiah 33:6
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